I know William Joyce, a quiet and very unassuming man always in deep thoughts. I have not spoken to him about this yet, but I truly believe when one look at Dancesport as a sport and WDC who believe that Dance should be look at as an "arty farty" form, the decision is obvious. Knowing William he had always believe to each his own, I am sure he would have conveyed the message of Dancesport New Zealand to their WDC counterpart in the most cordial and civilised manner, this great New Zealand Freedom of Choice. You do your thing and we do ours, there is nothing to get upset with.
Look at it objectively, IDSF talks about sports, WDC talks about artistry, look at UK and the motto of BDC "Dance for Pleasure and Love it Forever". There is certainly nothing wrong with that.
Much of the confusion by the BDC and the WDC boys in the UK is that they confuses sports and artistry in Dance.
When you look at the Sport of Dance, you are looking a definite set of rules and most of all fair play. It is these rules that govern Dancesport that BDC or WDC finds it hard to comprehend or rather refuses to comprehend.
The judging of IDSF Open uses the IDSF Pro Dance program, I am not going into the operation of the program save that an athlete can see how each of the judges mark them. However with all its open marking, this is not adequate for a subjective sport.
With this in mind, IDSF came out with the New Judging System that follows the International Skating Union (ISU). The system was first introduced at the IDSF Grand Slam Finals in Shanghai in 2009. I have to concede that there were minor technical hitches here and there but it generated the results fairly quickly. Since then it has been improved and is used in all the Grand Slam series and also in the last 2010 Asian Games in Guangzhou.
So how does the New Judging system works? Suffice for me to state that points are given in 5 areas and they are Posture Balance Coordination, Quality of Movement, Movement to Music, Partnering Skills, Choreography and Presentation.
It is quite pointless to reinvent the wheel, IDSF emulated the system from the ISU and modified it to Dancesport environment. Now that WDC is already in WADA, and Hurrah! for that, perhaps they should adopt IDSF New Judging System in their competition. At least it is another step closer to heaven.
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17 comments:
Dear Skydancer,What is wrong with artistry in Dancesport?it is after all an art form is it not. That should be the main criterion for judging the dancers. I feel that IDSF basis of judging devoid of artistry is hollow, Dancesport is art.
That is exactly why WDC approach towards Dancesport cannot be accepted as a sport. That is also the reason why Blackpool is described as a Dance Festival, a jolly happy Festival in a leisure park environment. Now WDC AL you have been looking at ballroom dancing as a fun time avocation that you cannot understand the need for sporting rules.
Dear WDC AL, first I want to thank you for giving your views on this Blog. You line of thinking is common among those in the WDC and BDC. Ballroom Dancing has alawys been a social avocation in the UK, when they have competition it was a tongue in cheek affair. Take Blackpool as an example. For a very long time Blackpool adjudicators are from UK, now you see foreign judges coming in.
For an international event following sporting rules, that structure is unacceptable. I am not saying that the judging is not fair, but in Sports, it is important to show that the spread reduces bias markings.
Now if you look at artistry per se, it is like asking 10 art critic to give their opinion on a painting. However will that satisfy the public? You recall the Blackpool competition when Brain Watson and Carmen competed for the last time and won. Many commented that he should not have won, some said that at the jive Brian was so heavy on his feet and went out of breath. The judges still marked them as champions.
Now if you look at the 5 criteria, judges cannot be let off the hook. They have to award points for each category. It is like giving reasons why you chose a particular couple.
To change this mind set in UK, seems impossible, because they have been and are comfortable with their system of adjudication. If BDC or WDC just sit and think carefully; what IDSF is doing is gearing Dancesport into a sporting event.
Why are BDC or WDC fighting them? Why are they placing obstacles in IDSF path?
The reason is they know what IDSF is doing is right and they fear that they will be obsolete. As a matter of fact they are now trying to catch up , like joining WADA.That is not sufficient, for WDC or BDC to be at par with IDSF , they need to have a good look at themselves , their structure and then reinvent themselves. Can you do that WSC AL?
Dear Skydancer, Obviously you would take the stand consistent with IDSF. But you still have to agree that the heart and soul of Dancesport is the artistry given by the dancers in interpreting the dance. Without artistry Dancesport is nothing but souless, that the action of the dancers will be mechanical. You mention the 5 criteria , that will be followed by IDSF dancers in a mechanical fashion. That should not be Dancesport. Since we disagree on this, I still maintain that artistry is important and IDSF should not ignore this factor. I still say that WDC is correct in their approach.
@WDC AL: Honestly, the Professionals are actually the amateurs slowing down due to age. It's a fact of life. About time WDC understands that ballroom dancing is for the old folks.
Skydancer, you cannot teach old dogs new tricks. It is impossible for you to change fixed mind set of those like Bryan Allen and in WDC. They simply does not understand sport or sporting rules. I do not know why you bother to waste your time on the likes of WDC AL.
Dear Tooting Bec Tooters, I the Blogger do not look at WDC or BDC as my enemy. I do not think calling them names or shouting at them will help matters. I can accept that we can agree to disagree. Whatever stand taken by WDC or IDSF or BDC for that matter, must be for a reason. All I ask for is to pause and study their reasons for acting in the way that they did.
Take BDC stand of applying their Rulebook rule 57. The rule per se is clear and unequivocal, it does not apply to Adjudicators and competitors. Yet BDC uses it to call a boycott of their members. Why? Till todate no one offered an explanation to justify BDC action.
Now in Praliament, you see the Conservative and the Labour. Their views may be different but they alawys refer to each other as the Right Honourable Gentleman/Lady. Here within the Dance fraternity in UK, BDC message is more like the UNION. You do not tow the line, we are going to call for an all out boycott. Is BDC a UNION? For goodness sake they are not. We state our point by persuasion not force. BDC is using force and sanction and that is not Freedom to Dance.
The International DanceSport Federation have become increasingly belligerent and insistant that they are a Sports Body and the World Dance Council are not.
Ok so they believe they are right (as 100% of the time they insist they are). IDSF is Sport. WDC is not. Certaibly WDC is a members of UNESCO CID. UNESCO United Nationals Education, Scientific Cultural Organisation.
The International Dance Council CID UNESCO
CID is the official umbrella organization for all forms of dance in all countries of the world.
It is a non-governmental organization founded in 1973 within the UNESCO headquarters in Paris, where it is based. It is the worldwide forum bringing together international, national and local organizations, as well as select individuals active in dance.
CID represents the art of dance in general and is recognized by UNESCO, national and local governments, international organizations and institutions.
The International Dance Council CID UNESCO
CID is the official umbrella organization for all forms of dance in all countries of the world.
It is a non-governmental organization founded in 1973 within the UNESCO headquarters in Paris, where it is based.
It is the worldwide forum bringing together international, national and local organizations, as well as select individuals active in dance.
CID represents the art of dance in general and is recognized by UNESCO, national and local governments, international organizations and institutions. Its members are the most prominent federations, associations, schools, companies and individuals in 150 countries.
So will IDSF now step forward and explain why a Sport Body bans its members from Cultural and Art activities?
They cannot have it both ways
What really makes me laugh at the hypocrisy of the IDSF and our Malaysian Sports Director is that they now question the decisions of WADA. Do you claim to be above WADA and their decisions are flawed?
I suppose WDC has a connection woth UNESCO because it believes in Education, giving dancers knowledge the ability to improve. Sports you do not care go fadter, higher, further, stronger and you are made and forget that music IDSF SPORT does not need music, that requires artistry and emotion, expressopn,
My main and biggest question is when we have decent standards of behaviour, Truthful and factual information from IDSF? They love to spread misinformation (see this website) they love to keep their members ignorant. One mans ignorance is another mans strength. This is what IDSF hope!! No wonder the WDC Asian Amateur League grows and grows, attracts National Champions from other countries and even Gold Medallist from Asian Games.
I shall be senfing to WADA and Sports Accod a link to this topic.
Time they read the evil attitide of those playing politics rather than accepting fact.
I am sure that WADA will not be happy yo learern that our Malaysoan IDSF member Sport Director considers them incompetemt and unable to judge what is and what is not Sport.
I am sure the IOC will wonder what the IDSF is all about when they get myletter to tell them the Sports Director of the ODSF Malaysoan member consider WADA incompetent to decide what is Sport. He wioll tell WADA LOL!!
Duumb or dumbeer ??????????????
The "Unassuming" Mr Joyce assumed too much. He now discovers New Zealand adjudicators are refusing invitations to judge their events!
Will he go down the IDSF route? Knowledge, qualifications are not important. So long as they understand "Sport". No 10 goes faster so they win, No 12 jumps higher so they are 2nd. No 21 is stronger they knock anyone out the way 3rd for them. Most important they all ignore that annoying music. Honestly who needs music in sport that belongs to the horse and cart era..
So WDC is in UNESCO CID and Dance mate thinks it is a big thing. Among others CID is " It is strictly non-commercial; it has no products or services to sell. It is independent of any government, political ideology or economic interest. CID treats all forms of dance on an equal basis. It does not promote a particular view of dance, recognizing its universal
character as an art form, as a means of education and as a research subject.
Dance Mate congratulations to WDC joing this organisation but I want to ask you, so what is the big deal?
This body look at any dance as an art form in its universal characteristic. I suppose the Morris Dancers are given equal prominence as WDC Ballroom Dancing. Dance Mate, you WDC chaps if to make it more culturally acceptable may want to add tassels and bells to your Ballroom costumes.
Can WDC say that it is a non commercial organisation like CID? You chaps are a company limited, promoting culture and making money out of it. Not true ? Look at coming postings.
I suggest you take up your complaint regarding UNESCO with IDSF. It is IDSF who write about working with and respecting United Nation Organisations. By the way I congratulate you for writing yet another of the funniest rants determined to spread misinformarion for which this website is gaining a reputation. The saddest is the continual racism displayed. Your desperation becomes ever more obvious. My synmpathies to you.
I suggest you take up your complaint regarding UNESCO with IDSF. It is IDSF who write about working with and respecting United Nation Organisations. By the way I congratulate you for writing yet another of the funniest rants determined to spread misinformarion for which this website is gaining a reputation. The saddest is the continual racism displayed. Your desperation becomes ever more obvious. My synmpathies to you.
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